FEZANA SPECIAL EVENT

REPORTS BY TRADITIONALISTS

1. Ervad Jal Birdy:

(for full report on the WZC2000 Congress by Ervad Birdy, click)

... 3. FEZANA Sponsored Event for Jafarey: The organizers were most worried about our threat to hold a peaceful demonstration. When we insisted on holding it, FEZANA reluctantly agreed to allocate an area in the lobby outside the hall where we could hold our protest. I had gone earlier and had made forty placards on bright yellow boards with short captions exposing the misdeeds of Jafarey. I did this on my host?s computer with the help of Kinko printers.

As things went, however, the Indian delegation was committed to boycott the event and did not want to come to the hall at all. At short notice, an alternative session was arranged where Rustom Tirandaz was to present a rebuttal to WZO and the formation of an alternative world organization. At the traditionals meeting in Pervin Mistry?s room on the 29^th, where all the traditionals mentioned in (1) above were present, a decision was made to not hold the protest by a majority vote. All were urged to attend the Tirandaz session instead.  My placards were therefore relegated to the trash can. 

I think everything worked out for the better, however, since other traditional stalwarts (no names please) had prepared a one page folded leaflet which was distributed to the audience by a group of enthusiastic youngsters. This leaflet had a tremendous impact on everyone and caught FEZANA completely unprepared. It was titled ”FEZANA Felicitates a Fraud” and “Honoring the Dishonorable”. It had photo copies of the Karachi University?s letter refuting Jafarey?s Ph.D., this time addressed to Mr. Byram Avari of Karachi, and also a copy of Jafarey?s birth certificate from the Municipal District of Karachi (Jafarey has maintained he was born in Kerman, Iran). The leaflet ended “Do you want your children to listen to this liar and be taught how to fake their academic degrees?” 

A liberal session preceded the special event in the same hall, which had a capacity of about 600, sitting around tables. So the hall was already crowded with liberals who stayed on for the event. Some people were allowed to go in, but when FEZANA realized that the leaflets were being distributed, they asked the Houston police (who were employed by them in force) to shut the doors and not allow any more to go in citing “fire risk”. Sam and I managed to find our way in and get a table close to the stage. Pervin Mistry and others were unable to get inside. 

The session chair was FEZANA V.P., Firdosh Mehta (who was by now thoroughly sick due to the continual hammering both Pervin and I had given him earlier for caving in to the liberal demands for holding this event). He introduced Jafarey as just Ali Jafarey; not “Dr.” 

Ervad K. N. Dastoor, came in his dagli and pagri and spoke first.  The topic selected for each speaker was the interpretation of Gatha Y30.2, which deals with Zarathushtra advocating a choice between good and evil as opposed to the liberals twisting it to mean freedom to do just as one pleases. I think KND did a good job of convincing the audience that the meaning of this verse and the connected verses was far removed from what the liberals have been brainwashing the unsuspecting public. KND dwelled a fair amount on the spiritual and mystical content of the verse, which was something the audience had not heard before. 

Jafarey came in a suit and had a crochet scull cap (looking more like a Muslim than a Z). He opened his talk with a loud chanting of the verse in a completely unnatural tone. Later Ervad Godrej Sidhwa of Karachi chided him for mispronouncing almost every word. He gave the usual comparisons of various philological translations, mainly reading Kanga?s Gujarati translations and translating them into English for the audience to show off his skill in Gujarati. There was nothing new in his talk; just freedom to do anything you please. 

KND had requested some of us in advance to ask certain questions, which he could expound further. Sam, Behroze Karanjia and myself asked some of these pertinent questions, which helped KND to add to his lecture. Firdosh had warned us previously that he would only allow questions, which related to the topic. We had accordingly prepared these questions. On the whole, I think the affair was rather tame, with KND coming off slightly better. There was no excitement from the audience or harassment of the speakers. There were no personal attacks by either speaker. Applause was moderate for both speakers and there were no repeated standing ovations.

* * * * *

2. Ervad Marzban Hathiram

----- Original Message -----

From: Marzban Hathiram marzban@cdr-india.com
To: TraditionalZarathushtris@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 5:50 AM
Subject:  Re: [Traditional Zs] FEZANA’s AAJ/KND Presentation 

Dear TZML members,

A lot has been and will be written about the KND/AAJ debate. Here are my perceptions from this much talked about event as a back bencher (literally) at that session.

1. Compared to the hullabaloo raised by both traditionalists and liberals over the event, it actually turned out to be quite a non-event. Despite the massive turnout and the fears about security etc., the event was well handled, to the credit of FEZANA.

2. I think a lot of expectation was built up for this event. People came to see something like “clash of the titans”. The reality was otherwise. It was a very sober event, with each speaker speaking very plainly on his topic, without any histrionics.

3. My feeling (and corroborated by other lay people at the event) was that both speakers spoke in such technical terms that 75% of the crowd did not clearly understand what was being said. While KND spoke on particle physics, accelerators and other such scientific trivia, AAJ confined himself to reading out translations from various authors.

4. I have listened to KND several times, and, in my honest opinion, while he was very good, I have seen him speak better. Since I have not heard AAJ before, I cannot compare his performance with earlier ones, although I can say that he was singularly un-inspiring.

5. Regarding who “carried the day”, I do not think either did. What really carried the day was the fact that people got, at last, to hear two opposing sides speak at one forum, limiting themselves to a very narrow topic. I think it is pointless to argue about “standing ovations” and the like simply because they cannot be used as fair yardsticks. Each side had their vociferous supporters who broke into applause everytime their hero spoke something momentous. Alas, the back benchers (including myself) got a shock when KND asked them to stop clapping and cheering and instead concentrate on the topic!

6.  To the credit of FEZANA it must be said that the moderator was totally fair to both speakers - both could not finish their speeches, which was ok for KND as he was only referring to notes, but bad for AAJ since he was reading out a speech. He even complained that he had two pages to go when the moderator asked him to wind up.

7. The Q&A’s that followed gave both sides enough ammo to further their views although I think the traditionalist’s questions were better put and gave KND a further opportunity to drive home his points.

8. KND was completely confident though not cocky. AAJ seemed very docile, perhaps even scared. The earlier days we could see him strutting around confidently in the various halls but on the stage he seemed very out of place and ill-fitting. His recitation of 30.2 in a loud but totally alien voice was the most absurd recitation I have heard and even beat one mad group of singers lead by an Australian Irani lady signing the Gathas in a high pitched scream. I had a good mind to go up and recite the Gathas in the way we priests have done over thousands of years!!

9. From a philological angle, AAJ carried the day since he quoted various scholars(including Kanga, Taraporewala etc) whom he tried to align with his own translation. KND spoke very little grammar but more of the limits of the human mind in comprehending the mysteries of God.

10. In conclusion, we can say that both speakers spoke what was expected of them. Both had their supporters and their hecklers. Both espoused their grand visions - one for a true understanding of the limits of man and the other for the unbridled “freedom” that man has - including choosing his own religion. 

Regards,

Ervad Marzban Hathiram

* * * * * *

3. Mr. Sam Billimoria

From: “sam billimoria” sambillim@home.com
To: TraditionalZarathushtris@egroups.com
Sent: January 6, 2001 4:59:27 PM GMT
Subject:  Re: [Traditional Zs] FEZANA’s AAJ/KND Presentation 

One little observation on fairness of moderator.,since I was next to the stage.

When the time limit was ostensibly reached, the moderator subtly moved around to show his awareness  but in case of AAJ ensured that he was not that physically visible, to allow him more time.

In case of KND the approach was more direct from KND”s side, to warn him.

Subtle moves that end resulted in AAJ getting five to seven more minutes.

That for a thirty minute speech is significant.

Was it openly done ? It can and will be fervently denied. I know the exact times as I have video taped both speeches.

As far as ovation for KND is concerned. , the hets had a strategy . First three to four  middle and surrounding rows were all occupied by AAJ chamchaas ( about  100  mainly Iranis.)  from a previous event , which would be no use to me ,as it was nothing but freedom of choice. I could definitely notice a semi circle formation ,when they stood and applauded. The majority about 90 per cent would just sit down.  This gave the appearance at least , that AAJ was getting a lot of audience support . At the end of their speeches , AAJ was swiftly whisked out  followed by the video cameraman as a great hero. KND stood more calmly , friendlier , on the stage, for more than half an hour. smiling and talking to people. It left an indelible mark that he  had a much greater impact on the audience other than staged applauds. Don’t forget, as Marazaban pointed out, KND himself discouraged applauses and that could have dampened  final  applause. For a relative unknown to the N. American mass majority, KND was a positive impact from the traditional front. I would like Jal to comment on these observations. , since he was also close to the stage.  To the seventy  percent silent majority KND did leave a positive impression .. AAJ was cracking and nervous in patches.

I wander what all on listbot are saying.

One more thing that is underplayed. A circular exposing lies of AAJ about his place of birth and his claim to Ph.D. was circulated prior to their speech, with a Header that FEZANA PERPETUATES FRAUD. Since we had  pleas from KND to fight the issue on its merits and not on  personal affront, I did not bring it up during the questionnaire.

* * * * * *

4. Mr. Filly K. Maravala

From: fmaravala@aol.com
To: TraditionalZarathushtris@egroups.com
Sent: January 11, 2001 1:42:35 PM GMT
Subject: [Traditional Zs] My observations on the WZC2000 in Houston

BANAME KHOODA - TANDORASTI

My dearest fellow Mazdayasnis,

My observations of the WZC2000 and of the 2400 so called Jarthostis can be summed up in 3 words. DISMAL and DESPAIR.

Traditional Zoroastrianism as we know it is dead in North America and Canada, but let me hastily put in a caveat that there are still some pockets/chapters that are very very orthodox and traditional.

Someone on this list called such conferences/congresses a talking shop, sad  to say this person (I cant remember who) was not wrong.  I went in with an open mind and a firm focus to use all my endeavours to enhance and uplift the Traditional message, and although Pervin, Ervad Jalbhai, Sam and Ervad Hathiram were not too wrong in their summation, I found the odds against Traditionalism hugely against us.  A measure I used was at seminars and meetings, I gauged the applause given to each speaker, and although it would be absolutely right to say that Ervad Jalbhai and Marzban and Pervin Mistrys son received huge applauses and accolade, the majority of speakers like KD Irani, Framroze Patel (president of FEZANA when he said in one of his speeches that he welcomed the Tracy’s Susan’s and Brendas of this world and their offsprings) Jehan Bugli, Yezdi Antia, Kersey Antia (I refuse to call them an ervad because they  are a disgrace to the athornan paghdi that they wear) Purvez Kolsawala, Meherborzin Souroshian and many other liberal speakers got a consistently bigger ovation, from that you could judge the mood of the gathered.   

Some seminars had a panel of all liberals sittings on the bench, which I thought was rather unfortunate. As opposed to the above something constructive I saw was the sterling effort made in the face of overwhelming odds by stalwarts like, Ervad Jalbhai Birdy, Sunnu Birdy, Sam Billimoria, Pervin Mistry, Jimmy Mistry, Pervez Mistry, Kaemerz Dotiwala, Sarosh Collector, Saroch Maneckshaw, Godi and Tehmpton Aresh, Charlotte and Yezdi Kharas, Homi Davier and I beg forgiveness for any others I may have inadvertently missed.  These are not many, but what we lack in numbers we more than make up in quality.  That takes care of the DESPAIR side of things that I felt.

The DISMAL side was my expectations of a congress/conference were not in the least realised. I expect a congress/conference to deliver things, I expect it to take votes, I expect it to take decisions. Let me expand, all our traditional speakers propounded the same message about inter-marriage, I would have expected the organisers to take note of that, maybe come up with some resolutions on how to arrest this ugly trend.  The need to educate our young was felt to be of paramount importance, once again I would have expected different regions of the world to come up and say how they felt it could be done in their regions.  Then come back in four years time and report on what the progress has been and what more work needs to be done, instead at the next 4 years time, it will be exactly the same, we the trads will be pushing our same message and the liberals will be doing exactly the same, so as far as expectation for something constructive to come out of this conference I am afraid I was very disappointed, but then again as I say, maybe my expectations were too high and different, and to that end I would not be rushing to book an airline ticket to the next World Zoroastrian Congress.

Let me now focus on the Jashan.  This was conducted by none other than Bomi Sanjana (the rogue mobed who dares calls himself a mobed, who does juddin lagans and navjotes), and I am so proud our our traditional mobeds who quite rightly boycotted this so called Jashan, in the presence of parjats and ignorant Iranis  who did not even feel the need to cover their heads and I counted at least 14.  Incidentally I have made 3 3hr cassettes, I would not mind posting these to different continents, like Emirates, India, Australia, Canada and indeed the USA, they are mainly of our traditional speakers, to hell with the liberal speakers, I would not give them the time of day, let alone video their rubbish utterances.

* * * * * *

5. Mr. Wadia, Mr. Billimoria & Mr. Forbes

From: "arzan sam wadia" <arzan@hotmail.com>
To: TraditionalZarathushtris@egroups.com
Sent: December 31, 2000 5:14:25 AM GMT
Subject: [Traditional Zs] Congress : Jafarey makes no impact

Dear folks

Am reporting from teh congress

The much awaited debate between Ervad K N Dastur and Ali Jafarey got over three hours ago. Sadly the one event that was no part of the official congress agenda got the most following.

The venue hall was choc a bloc with people and many had to be left outside.

Ervad Dastur started first and did a FANTASTIC presentation explaining the Gatha 30.2 On teh basis of new scientific theories of the 20th ceenturies and the reintrepretations of the spiritual ideologies he explained thouroughly the right interpretation of the gatha

Jafarey got to speak next and he used the interpretation of scriptures by six scholars over the past 100 years to base his theory which was not clear and definitely not original.

In teh question answer session that followed, Ervad Dastur continued in the same steam, and frankly won the debate (if ever there was a competition) hollow.

Of course all readers would realise these are my views and i am sure there will be more detailed reporting on this.....mr sam billimoria was there.....he asked a very pertinent question and over th next days we should hear more on this as people get email access.

Ironically the most learned scholar does nto speak in teh conference itself but in a side show!!!!! is that fair

Arzan Sam Wadia

from the 7th W Z C, Houston

From: "sam billimoria" <sambillim@home.com>
To: TraditionalZarathushtris@egroups.com
Sent: January 19, 2001 7:24:20 AM GMT
Subject: Re: [Traditional Zs] RE: Avary VS Solar Panels

Gustadji,

the only reason AAj got more applause because his audience was staged. I noticed a definite semi circle around the podium in the first four rows or so , that they all stood up and applauded. Evidently they had all occupied these seats from a previous event which was about freedom of choice. this gave an illusion that a lot of audience applauded , when in fact 75 per cent seemed to favor KND's per my random survey. The 25 per cent who did not were of course AAJ"S chamachas

From: G.B. Forbes
To: TraditionalZarathushtris@egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 8:58 PM
Subject: RE: [Traditional Zs] RE: Avary VS Solar Panels

18.01.2001
Dear Mr. Billimoria,

……….deleted…….

Yes, I read yours and others postings and was glad that KND's mission of introducing Kshnoom to the lot out there, did have its desired effect. It matters not if AAJ got a better ovation. This is the time of KalYuga, when even Lord Krishna has said that " the swans shall have to do with thrash and that peopole will cast pearls before swines."  Oooooops !  But on seconds thoughts, I shall let it be.

Regrads, Gustadji.

* * * * * *

6. Ervad Birdy's Thoughts on The Event

-----Original Message-----
From: Jal N. Birdy jalnb@mediaone.net
To: Roshan R Rivetna rivetna@lucent.com
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:42 PM
Subject: WZC2000 - My thoughts on the "Event"


Dear Roshan:

I have had to exceed your very tight word limit to cover the many questions you have asked.  In fairness I hope you will be able to print my thoughts verbatim.  Thank you and kind regards,

Jal Birdy.

********
This was one event that should never have occurred.  Unlike the Houston half of the Congress Executive Board who had the backbone to stand firm in deference to world opinion, FEZANA’s lack of leadership used the prop of
their inadequate voting system as an excuse to felicitate a fraud.  It was somewhat gratifying to know that the "event" was kept outside of the congress agenda.

In contrast to his adversary on the podium, Ervad Kaikhushro Dastoor quite convincingly showed the audience the utter folly of interpreting Gatha Y30.2 as a license to do anything one pleased using one’s thoroughly inadequate but much touted ”Vohu Mano”.  He demonstrated the vast disparity existing between interpretations of the Gathas and the senselessness of considering the Gathas alone as the only true Zarathushti scripture based on specious interpretations.

During question time Ervad Dastoor offered to convert members of the audience to Islam by showing them the beauty of that faith, implying thereby the inappropriateness of converting from one’s religion of birth to
another.

Ervad Dastoor clearly carried the evening by his delivery and well-reasoned thoughts.  Speakers who deceive their unsuspecting audiences in the guise of scholarship do not qualify for "Inclusion"; it is hoped they will be kept
firmly at bay in future congresses.

Ervad Jal N. Birdy.
Corona, California.
January 17, 2001.

* * * * * *

7. Mrs Mistry's Plea for Peaceful Demonstration:

From: Porus Homi Havewala <porushh@zip.com.au>
To: TraditionalZarathushtris@egroups.com
Sent: December 25, 2000 1:14:40 PM GMT
Subject: [Traditional Zs] Peaceful protest against the Muslim ali


LETTER FROM MRS PERVIN MISTRY
--------------------------------------------------------

ALL self-respecting and true Zarathushtis who are attending the WZC 2000, MUST gather in the lobby of the Marriott Hotel, Houston, at 5:30 PM on 30^th December, 2000. We will have a PEACEFUL protest to demonstrate against the participation of a proven liar at a Zarthushti Congress. We will protest against this act of FEZANA and will raise our voices against the many mischieves Mr. Jafarey (and his followers) has committed against our divinely revealed scriptures, established traditions, rituals, priests, etc.

- Mrs. Mistry.

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:04:33 +0000 (GMT)
From: pervin mistry <pervinmistry@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Peaceful protest
To: Homi Davier <Davier5@aol.com>, Pallan Ichaporia <kerfegar@aol.com>,
Sarosh Manekshaw <manekshawconsulting@worldnet.att.net>,
Sam Billimoria <sambillim@home.com>, Jal Birdy <jalnb@earthlink.net>,
Porus Homi Havewala <porushh@zip.com.au>,
"Jimmy Mistry \(Work\)" <jimmy.mistry@stoneweb.com>,
Godi Tahamtan Aresh <ushtate@hotmail.com>,
Charlotte Kharas <ydkharas@airmail.com>

Dear Porus,

Please will you register me on the new egroup as I am not on the list yet? When the move was made from TZML's previous address to egroups, I was in China and did not have easy access to e-mail. The reason why I wish to rejoin immediately is because I want this message to go to the TZML membership as well as to FEZANA and Congress officials.

Mr. Ali Akbar Jafarey HAS BEEN PROVEN A LIAR! He has lied about his degrees; he has lied about "gomez"; he has lied about many things! Whether a "Zarathushti" is a heterodox or an orthodox, or follows any brand of whatever, a "Zarathushti" NEVER LIES! Jafarey, the so-called "ratu" has been caught lying to the community many times over and FEZANA does not think it to be shameful to invite such a liar as a guest speaker at a "Zarathushti" Congress? What reputation does and will FEZANA have IF it involves a KNOWN LIAR as a speaker?

Porus, please put the following notice immediately to our e-mail group that ALL self-respecting and true Zarathushtis who are attending the WZC 2000, MUST gather in the lobby of the Marriott Hotel, Houston, at 5:30 PM on 30^th December, 2000. We will have a PEACEFUL protest to demonstrate against the participation of a proven liar at a Zarthushti Congress. We will protest against this act of FEZANA and will raise our voices against the many mischieves Mr. Jafarey (and his followers) has committed against our divinely revealed scriptures, established traditions, rituals, priests, etc.

Porus, please forward this message to all members of TZML immediately and let it be known to FEZANA officials that enough is enough! ZARATHUSHTIS DO NOT TOLERATE LIES AND LIARS!

Thanking you,
Sincerely,
Pervin.

* * * * * *

8. Ervad Birdy Thanks His Lone Warrior:

From: "Jal N. Birdy" jalnb@mediaone.net
To: "TZMLBoard" TZMLBOARD@egroups.com, "Traditional Z. List (egroups)"
TraditionalZarathushtris@egroups.com, "Kharas, Charlotte"
ydkharas@yahoo.com
Sent: January 6, 2001 5:52:12 PM GMT
Subject: [Traditional Zs] WZC2000 - Thanks Charlotte


Dear Charlotte:

It was so nice to meet you and your family at the Congress.  I did not get to wish you all a Happy New Year and Millennium, so please accept a slightly belated greeting from Soonu and myself.

On behalf of our traditional friends I would like to put on record and thank you most sincerely for the sterling effort you have singlehandedly put in to further the traditional cause and thwart the deceitful attempts of the liberal element in our community.

Your brave effort to implement the scheme of distributing the pamphlets discrediting the deceitful at the FEZANA Special Session on the 30th at the Congress is sincerely applauded.  I think your effort had a positive impact on the audience and other attendees.  While others may have helped you in this task, you were the one out there in the lobby distributing the pamphlets; you were in the lion's den - so to speak - while the other faceless ones were somewhere else.  We applaud your courageous efforts and also those of Pervin and Sam, who were also out there in the limelight, risking their reputation.  Thank you all from the bottom of our hearts; we hope you will continue to act in the fearless way you have acted to defend our faith, belief and way of life.  I have also sent a thank you card to the two youngsters, who helped us in the distribution.

Your singlehanded efforts to challenge the liberals on their own turf on the Listbot alias are also xemplary.  Thank you and please continue the job that you do so well; you have certainly put them on shaky ground with your writings.  You have our unilateral support and admiration.  God Bless you and yours. 

Kindest regards,

Ervad Jal N. Birdy.

* * * * *

Jafarey's Comments: I leave it to the Conscience (Daenâ) of the Reader. Please read each of the reports and also my paper Meaning and Message of Yasna 30, and then judge for yourself for the twists and the Truth

* * * * * *

LINKS:

FEZANA SPECIAL EVENT

TABLE OF CONTENTS  and Their Links 

Foreword  

Introduction & the Gist of "The Plain Reality Behind The Intricate Falsity"

  Analysis of the 26-page "Global Protest"